The transcript occurs near the end of a group meeting. Ralph has just made a comment about wanting to say things to people to evoke their "essence."

John: I have a hard time with your saying that. The whole concept that you see yourself as here to help or produce people’s essence or to be the lightning rod. It just irritates me.

Ralph: Uh huh.

John: It makes me uncomfortable with you. Cause I’m not sure if you’re seeing me, or you’re seeing me-as-you-think-I-should-be, or me as you, in your divine position of essence as understanding [sarcastic]. So I get very defensive.

Ralph: Uh huh.

John: I don’t know why you carry that on. I was curious about why you take that on. Why do you have to be the guy who dredges it up?

John has been making some very direct, contactful statements about his feeling toward Ralph, operating at the emotional and relational levels, but now he switches to the content level by asking Ralph to figure himself out. He ostensibly begins asking Ralph for insight, but at the emotional level, he is still expressing anger.

Ralph: Well, it’s worked for me, to whatever degree...

John: It doesn’t work with me.

John switches back to being direct.

Ralph: Yeah, that’s true.

John: I don’t see how it works for you. I don’t see how it gets you closer to people.

Jay (to John): Hold it. Let’s not get into "people." It doesn’t work with you. That’s what’s important right now.

I focus John on being interactive by talking about their relationship, not Ralph’s pattern in general.

Jay: How are you responding to that, Ralph?

I ask Ralph for his awareness of his emotional response to John.

Ralph: Well, I mean I just watch myself dealing with it all, and there’s a defensive part of me that says "Yeah, well, you know..."

Jay: You’re feeling defensive with John right now?

Ralph responded with a general statement about his feelings rather than a direct statement of feelings in the moment, so I translated his general statement into the present and asked him if he was feeling defensive now.

Ralph: Yeah, well, with him in particular, but around the theme, there is this part of me that...

Jay: Wait a minute. Stay with John, not the theme.

Ralph frequently uses insight as a defense against contact by analyzing himself endlessly. Therefore I try to keep him in the here-and-now interaction by focusing on the relational level rather than the content.

Ralph: Part of me says, "Yes, that’s true. That doesn’t work with John," and there’s this angry part that says, "What the fuck does work with John, anyway." You know, you’re a tough nut. Even that might not work with you. You’re here today, but will you be here tomorrow, which is probably a piece of my stuff. I mean, you’re really on today. You’re really centered, and I thought you were really great with Jay. And I feel that you’re really here and letting all your shit hang out. But will you be here tomorrow, but that’s another issue.

Ralph is referring to two things: (1) John’s being present in the group, because John tends to be absent from group without having a really compelling reason, and (2) John’s being emotionally present, because often he is very quiet in group.

John: Yeah, you’re going back into that shit-stirring stuff with me right now. I’m saying that I don’t like it when you stir the shit with me. It pushes me away.

Ralph: Uh huh.

Jay (to Ralph): Wait a minute. You’re not just stirring shit. You have your own feelings about...

John is accusing Ralph of his usual provocative behavior, and though he may be accurate, I am more interested in helping Ralph to be more present in the interaction. I attempt to do this by focusing on the emotional response evoked in him when John is not consistently available.

Ralph: Uh huh.

Jay: So tell him what your feelings are about whether he’s going to be here tomorrow or not.

Ralph: That’s a separate...I mean, I think he’s right...

John: I don’t think it is separate. I think maybe that’s why you stir the shit. You get angry at me, and you don’t say that, and then you try to figure me out.

My intervention doesn’t work, and they continue to struggle at the content level.

Ralph: Everything you say adds another thing. So I can only deal with so many things at once. I’m not sure that everything I do is about you not being here tomorrow. Sometimes it’s about you not being here today, and I do feel you here today, and I’ve actually been really excited about feeling you here the last month.

John: I hate this place. I feel, right now, and I get this from the group, like if I’m here or not, it’s almost... I feel judged somehow in this place. Right now. "You’re not here right now, John, so somehow you’re less-than." That’s how I’m hearing it. Somehow you’re not good enough cause you’re not here today.

John is bringing up a very important issue, his fear of being judged by Ralph. As often happens, this interaction touches on core issues for both of them. John has an issue about being judged and Ralph has one that leads him to judge others. Even though the two of them are interacting, and both clearly have issues that could be investigated, my focus is primarily on Ralph. I am particularly interested in his lack of contact and presence because that seems to be the bottleneck in the interaction (see Bottleneck Issues in chapter 17).

Ralph: That’s your piece, because...

John: I know that’s my piece.

Here they are struggling about problem ownership, about who is to blame for their difficulty in connecting.

Ralph: ...that’s not the way I felt. The way I feel is: I feel like all along, at different times we’ve tried to connect, and I fear some of what you say to me about what makes me difficult for you to be around. But I also feel like you’ve disengaged, and you’ve gone off and decided that you want to connect with others, and that’s it, and...

John: You’re right, all those things I have done.

Ralph: Right, and...

Jay: And how does that make you feel, Ralph.

Again I’m asking focus on his feelings rather than the other person’s behavior.

Ralph: How does that make me feel? It makes me feel... sad. I never really give up, so I don’t think the full impact is there. I don’t feel like the last word has been spoken.

Ralph answered my question about his feelings, a step in the right direction, but then immediately went back to intellectualizing.

Jay: It makes you feel sad.... Keep going with how it makes you feel.

I try to keep him focused on his feelings long enough to allow something deeper to evolve.

Ralph: I mean that isn’t a real strong feeling, because I don’t feel like it’s over. So I don’t want to feel sad and start grieving it, because I don’t feel hopeless.

Jay: So what are you feeling?

Ralph: I also feel relieved because... sometimes I feel like you use your vulnerability like a weapon, and...

Now Ralph is not only avoiding his feelings, but he has gone back to his favorite tactic, guessing about the other person’s underlying motives. This tends to annoy people and make them defensive unless they have asked for help of this nature, which is certainly not the case here.

Jay: Wait, Ralph...

Ralph: But, but, I’m...

Group members: Wait. Mmm. That’s the place you go, Ralph. Yeah. Don’t do that.

The group has seen Ralph do this enough that they try to help him stop. He is quite resistant.

Jay: See you’re back into his underlying motives. Can you stay with...

Ralph: Well, I don’t know how to reference my feelings without bringing out that piece.

Jay: Reference your feelings to his behavior, but not to his underlying motives.

Ralph: Well, that’s the behavior.

Jay: What’s the behavior?

Ralph: That his vulnerability becomes a weapon.

Jay: That’s not his behavior. That’s your interpretation.

I am trying to explain the difference between talking about someone else’s behavior and his motives, but Ralph isn’t getting it. I let it go for now.

Ralph: Well, I don’t believe he always does that, but it can happen.

John: So.

Ralph: So I really feel frustrated with that because...talk about feeling bad, it’s like you’re bringing out all this vulnerability, but it feels like a weapon, rather than a statement.

Jay: That’s all about him. The only thing you said about yourself was that you felt frustrated.

"Frustrated" is not a very useful description of a feeling. Ralph is emphasizing what John did rather than how it affected Ralph emotionally and what it meant to him.

Ralph: Right. Well, it makes me feel badly because... Well, gee, if I were more vulnerable, then I could be John’s friend. But there’s this part of me that says, no that’s not true.

Jay: You feel bad.

I am attempting to focus on what seems like the feeling part of Ralph’s statement.

Ralph: It’s like I’m not enough. I’m not doing it your way.

Ralph is opening up a little. He describes feeling judged, but then in the statement below, he goes right back into his head.

I mean I feel a mirror with you sometimes. A lot of the things you say to me, I also feel toward you.... And I also do feel judged by you, in that same way. And evaluated by you.

John: I don’t accept that. I don’t think I judge you. I think I tell you what I’m feeling. I don’t try to analyze who you are. I see what you do, and I tell you how I respond to it. I don’t really judge you. It’s not a really big piece of it.

[They continue to argue. Ralph claims that John judges him, and John claims that Ralph analyzes his underlying feelings without being asked. Ralph claims that he can’t count on John being there. They are stuck in blaming each other.]

They thus perpetuate the power struggle about problem ownership and blame. I call this a blame cycle (see chapter 15).

Ralph: There’s something... There’s just more here...

John: I agree that there’s more here...

Ralph: And again, I don’t want to make it about you, but it seems like you keep slipping away. And I think it was great you took a break from group last week. I missed you, but I really felt... But there’s this quality of you vanishing that I find really... I can’t start until I feel that you’re committed to being in the room.

Jay: So when you experience that quality in him, how does that make you feel?

I try to help Ralph focus on his emotional reaction to John. This will move him away from focusing on John’s issues and help him own his reaction.

Ralph: Well, I guess the end product has been that I’ve basically given up for the time being. I feel frustrated...

Jay: I don’t want to know the end product. I want to know the inner process.

Ralph: The inner process is that I feel angry, frustrated, then I get philosophical...

Ralph has now given one aspect of his feeling response, his angry, protective response, and he also reveals his intellectual defense. Now I ask him for the underlying vulnerable feeling that is behind the anger.

Jay: What happens before angry and frustrated? There’s another, vulnerable, feeling there before angry and frustrated.

Ralph: Well, I... rejected....

Jay: OK, so just hang out with that for a moment. Let yourself feel that... and see if you can find a way to talk to John about that.

Ralph: [pause] Well I have this irrational desire for you to be more durable.

Ralph is beginning to focus on his emotional response, and to become aware of the meaning that John’s inconsistency has for him. This material could provide insight into Ralph’s fear of emotional abandonment, but Ralph isn’t yet present enough for insight to be a useful direction. Therefore, I ask him to bring the vulnerable feeling into the interaction, hoping to increase contact and therefore presence. Notice that Ralph revealed material even earlier that could have led me to make an interpretation about abandonment, but this would have simply led to intellectual insight, which Ralph characteristically uses as a defense. With another client who was more feeling oriented, I might have chosen to focus on insight.

Jay: I wonder if you can find a way to talk to John about your feeling of rejection, when you feel like he’s not there.

Ralph: Well, I guess when I feel I have to walk on egg shells around you, it feels impossible to me, it feels impossible to...

Jay: That doesn’t sound like rejection.

Ralph: Well, I guess I flashed on my father, and having to do it his way, or no way. Like there’s no give and take.

Ralph has switched to a different aspect of his difficulties with John, probably to avoid the vulnerable feeling. I separate them out and focus him again on the vulnerability.

Jay: You know it feels to me like there are two issues with John. One is the feeling that you have to do it his way, and the other is feeling rejected when you feel like he’s not there. And it seems that it’s very hard for you to stay with the rejection one. You keep going off in other directions.

Ralph: Well I think my mother was very energetically abandoning. She would just go off, and she was very rarely there at all. I experience when people’s energy tails off as very rejecting.

Ralph is beginning to have insight into the childhood origins of his issue, and he is more present. However, since Ralph in particular could easily lose this through intellectual analysis, I encourage him to focus on his awareness of his inner experience in the moment.

Jay: And just take a moment to be with what happens inside you when that happens.

Ralph: It feels very motherless. [softly] I feel like a motherless child. [pause]

Jay: Like really left, really abandoned.

He is now present, so I respond empathically.

Ralph: Uh huh. A real, kind of negative emptiness.

Jay: Uh huh. [pause] What’s it like to be in touch with that. Is that OK.

I’m checking to see how he feels about being so vulnerable, and he seems to be handling it OK. Notice that Ralph is working on two issues here. One is a defense that leads him to analyze and criticize others, and the other is a core issue about abandonment. I have encouraged him to deal with the first issue by experimenting with the healthier behavior of being direct, emotional, and vulnerable. This has led to his accessing the pain of the second issue. Both issues have to do with deficiencies in connectedness.

Ralph: Yeah. It’s an awful feeling. [vulnerable] It feels a little bit like solitary confinement, a sense of isolation in myself.... It’s like not being able to do anything that changes the situation.

Jay: Not being able to do anything to get this person to be present with you?

Ralph: Right. Right.

Jay: See if there’s a way now to bring this feeling into connecting with John. I’m not sure how to do that. It may feel very vulnerable to do that, and I don’t even know if you want to, but see what happens if you try to.

I ask him, somewhat awkwardly, to move from presence to contact.

Ralph: Well, I guess maybe you are mirroring a part of me that I don’t want to see.

Jay: You switched into figuring it out. See if you can be with him, with the feeling itself.

Perhaps because of my awkward intervention, Ralph went back into intellectualization, so I steer him back to presence and contact.

Ralph: [contactful] Well, I guess it’s a terrible feeling to feel excited about having contact with you, and not being able to count on that being there the next time....

Jay: Good. It feels like you really... did that.

Ralph has achieved good contact, so now I check in with John.

Jay: What’s happening John?

John: [soft and present] What’s happening is that I’m looking into his eyes. That’s what’s happening. And I feel very sad that that’s how it feels. I guess I know that... and there’s truth in that. [long pause as they make eye contact]

Jay: And where are you, Ralph.

Ralph: [very softly] Um, not knowing... There’s got to be a next step, but not knowing what that is. [pause]

Ralph is making contact with John, but as is often the case in these situations, he wants to figure out what to do next. I encourage them to continue the contact by reporting on their awareness of the moment.

Jay: Why don’t you each say what you’re feeling in the moment, as you’re in contact with each other?

Ralph: To me it feels like I’d rather have you dish out anything than leave me. I’ll duke it out with you, but don’t leave.

John: [pause] In the moment I was feeling very close to you, but also afraid of that.

When John feels close to Ralph and makes such a good connection with him, he is giving Ralph what he really wanted all along, but couldn’t easily get. This healing response reinforces Ralph for making healthy contact rather than being judgmental. The core issue, which has to do with abandonment, cannot be healed in one session, because consistency is needed. That will have to come over time as their relationship develops.

Jay: Afraid of what?

John: Afraid of being close to Ralph.

Jay: Mm.... And what about that is scary?

Ralph has made a significant therapeutic step, and John presents something to work with, so I have now switched to working with John.

John: I don’t know what about that’s scary. It’s scary. It’s scary to look. It’s scary to see what’s going on. You know it also feels... like an old place to be. I’ve done this a lot. We’ve done this a lot. It happens a lot.

Ralph: Not necessarily like this, though.

Here Ralph confirms the importance for him of this work. He has clearly taken in John’s healing response and inner healing has occurred.

John: I didn’t go to the next step. I just stayed here. [pause] In thinking how, for me, it’s very hard for me to stay in my body. That’s a lot of what my process is. I don’t generally look and see the world, I look down. [thoughtful] And I don’t stay in my body, so I’m not present.

John is exploring his blocks to being in contact.

John: And I need to tell myself that that’s not something to be ashamed of, that’s a process. It’s a reaction to something, and I’m responsible to change it if I want to be in the world, which I want to be.

John is struggling with his inner critic, which shames him for having any blocks. This is probably why he was sensitive to being criticized by Ralph earlier in the session.

John: For a long time I haven’t been here.... The whole concept of wanting and desiring and having a choice... It’s so new and foreign, and I’m not even sure if I want certain things. It’s hard to say I don’t want, too.

John was sexually abused as a child and consequently blocked off his needs and desires, as well as his connection with his body.

Ralph: Uh huh.

John: It gets mixed up in this relationship all the time.

Ralph: [very empathic] So I’m sorry if there is something about the way I approach you that makes you wrong or shamed for not being present. You know, I’m sure I do it to myself.

Ralph is now so open and connected that he can easily own his part in their difficulties and want to change.

John: You know, it doesn’t matter. When I hear your quality of acceptance, it doesn’t matter if I don’t take care of it. I don’t want to be in the position of setting myself up to be a victim. So if that’s your response to me,...

John is now stuck in criticizing himself for being a victim.

Jay: That’s not being a victim.

John: For me it is. It’s my shame. If I want to jump into that... It’s me. It’s nothing you do.

Ralph: Right, but you don’t have to see yourself that way.

Jay: But it’s not being a victim to tell him how his behavior affects you, and it’s OK for him to say that he wants to change that. You don’t have to push that away. That’s not being a victim. That’s part of a relationship, you know. It’s not something you’re just doing alone.

Ralph and I give John feedback that he wasn’t acting like a victim, and I do some teaching about the give and take of being in a relationship.

John: I still haven’t learned that. I have a hard time with... telling people what they do. It feels uncomfortable for me, you know. And even having the expectation that they can change... for me, because they want to have a relationship with me. To me that feels controlling, unnecessary... I’m still not thinking it through yet.

Jay: It could be done in a controlling way, but you didn’t. Ralph came to that on his own.

Ralph: Yeah. That was an offering.

Jay: He came to that in himself...

Ralph: For myself as much as anything else.

John: I accept that.

John takes in the feedback that he didn’t adopt a victim stance in order to control Ralph.